On your previous comment, I really think we mostly agree. I'm for making the highest bracket back at 39% as it was before Clinton. I think that was the only bad part of the Bush tax cuts. The rest were good (except that fact that they spent like mad at at the same time). I think you should be careful though when talking about corporations improving their shareholders bottom lines in a negative way. It used to be that stocks were only held by the wealthy. With 401ks and Roth IRAs, well over 50% of adult American own stock. Most middle class folks by far own stock – usually in their employee 401k. So when a company improves their shareholders bottom line, that's not just helping the rich, it helps the middle class too. I'm solidly middle class but have a decent amount of savings in my 401k. About half in stocks.

Good conversation though. I can't wait for Hillary to finally concede tomorrow. I'm having a concede party!

Gas is gonna be $5 a gallon by the 4th of July, if not sooner. We've discovered in the last week that we can't afford to fly anywhere, because airfares seem to have tripled (or worse) all of a sudden. Steve's arguments about how economists define a recession, and about what constitutes high unemployment, seem a little weaker tonight.

Of course, just as gas prices skyrocketed, Republicans in the Senate killed a global warming bill. No wind, solar, or cap-and-trade until next January, at the earliest. Rome's burning–fiddle harder, right wingers!!!!!! We're gonna burn you down in November, then start cooling the planet in January.

On your previous comment, I really think we mostly agree. I'm for making the highest bracket back at 39% as it was before Clinton. I think that was the only bad part of the Bush tax cuts. The rest were good (except that fact that they spent like mad at at the same time). I think you should be careful though when talking about corporations improving their shareholders bottom lines in a negative way. It used to be that stocks were only held by the wealthy. With 401ks and Roth IRAs, well over 50% of adult American own stock. Most middle class folks by far own stock – usually in their employee 401k. So when a company improves their shareholders bottom line, that's not just helping the rich, it helps the middle class too. I'm solidly middle class but have a decent amount of savings in my 401k. About half in stocks.

Good conversation though. I can't wait for Hillary to finally concede tomorrow. I'm having a concede party!

On your previous comment, I really think we mostly agree. I'm for making the highest bracket back at 39% as it was before Clinton. I think that was the only bad part of the Bush tax cuts. The rest were good (except that fact that they spent like mad at at the same time). I think you should be careful though when talking about corporations improving their shareholders bottom lines in a negative way. It used to be that stocks were only held by the wealthy. With 401ks and Roth IRAs, well over 50% of adult American own stock. Most middle class folks by far own stock – usually in their employee 401k. So when a company improves their shareholders bottom line, that's not just helping the rich, it helps the middle class too. I'm solidly middle class but have a decent amount of savings in my 401k. About half in stocks.

Good conversation though. I can't wait for Hillary to finally concede tomorrow. I'm having a concede party!

Gas is gonna be $5 a gallon by the 4th of July, if not sooner. We've discovered in the last week that we can't afford to fly anywhere, because airfares seem to have tripled (or worse) all of a sudden. Steve's arguments about how economists define a recession, and about what constitutes high unemployment, seem a little weaker tonight.

Of course, just as gas prices skyrocketed, Republicans in the Senate killed a global warming bill. No wind, solar, or cap-and-trade until next January, at the earliest. Rome's burning–fiddle harder, right wingers!!!!!! We're gonna burn you down in November, then start cooling the planet in January.

Yes, the Bush tax cuts saved a middle-class family earning $55k a year about $1,100 in 2004 as compared to 2001 (the most recent stat I could find). And yes, some lower-income people who were paying a little bit in taxes before aren't paying anything now.

Those are numbers that look nice, ON THEIR OWN, and for many middle- and lower-income voters those individual figures are all that matter. That's why Repubicans have success by saying, “I'm going to lower your taxes.” However, those individual numbers alone don't constitute a tax policy for a $3 trillion government.

If a Democratic politician acknowledges those individual tax savings under Bush, he might show some “civility” or some balls, but he's undercutting (at least for people who care about nothing but their own pocketbooks) the broader message of Democratic tax policy, which is progressiveness and fairness. For the fact is that, while middle- and lower-income folks got a bit of money back under Bush, as a GROUP they have taken on a larger percentage of the tax burden.

For every dollar a middle-income voter saved, a millionaire saved more than $50. The Bush tax policy is less progressive, less fair–and, oh by the way, is bankrupting the economy by taking hundreds of billions of dollars out of the coffers. Overwhelmingly (as a percentage), that money is being left with people who have more money than they know what to do with, and with corporations who aren't using the savings to improve anything but their shareholders' bottom lines.

Maybe it's disingenuous for a Democrat to ignore half the facts when arguing tax policy, but it's just as disingenuous when a conservative does it.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/…

Perhaps the average consumer, who has record levels of debt and saves nothing, should examine their own behavior. America is full of households who have a $40,000 income and a $40,000 SUV in the garage. What the hell are these irresponsible people thinking? Then you see them being interviewed on the local news screaming bloody hell about gas prices for their 15MPG SUV that they have no business buying in the first place. Oh, and college has become too expensive for their kids too, but they didn't think of that when they “had to have” that shiny red Tahoe.

The average consumer has shown irresponsible and wasteful behavior in recent times, which has everything to do with gas prices, and a lot to do with the situation “in these times”.