Dw. Dunphy On… Defending Leno

I have not come to refute the claims of editor-in-chief Jeff Giles, because it would be pointless. NBC is slowly finding out just how pointless, in fact, as they proceed to take a pounding from their advertisers and affiliates for their penny wisdom. “Jay Leno is beloved,” they said. “Jay’s fans are loyal, ” they said. What NBC brass feared was losing Leno to ABC, who probably would have snapped him up right quick, dumping Jimmy Kimmel like, well, like Sarah Silverman dumped Jimmy Kimmel (What, too soon?) With the costs rising by the year for scripted programs, the nighttime dramas leading the charge with more explosions, dead body mannequins and pricier locations, the Peacock network sought to kill two birds with one formerly skunk-haired stone. Talk shows are cheap. Run one five times a week and tell David E. Kelley to take his tired crap elsewhere. And with Jay, you get an instant audience! Win-win!

Only now, NBC has to wonder if the sponsors clamoring to back out of the 10 PM timeslot, and the money they represent, is more or less than the expenditure they would have otherwise incurred. Jay Leno, it seems, has become an albatross around the network’s neck, and if you think the added pressure would have caused him to step up his game and liven up the show, you probably were thinking this was originally a pretty good idea. No, the show still sucks.

But give Jay the teeny-tiniest break here. What would they have run in that slot if they hadn’t taken the big gamble? As I’ve said many times before: lawyers, cops and doctors. If for no better reason, give the big man a pat on the back for at least momentarily derailing the same old hackneyed, worn out and blood-drained train of thought that has plagued these “wonderful” nighttime dramas lo these many, many moons. It has been a long time since St. Elsewhere, L.A. Law and Hill Street Blues and, unlike the diehard loyalists, I don’t think the last couple seasons of ER were anywhere near the level of the first three. But there’s no doubt in my mind that without Leno shoving his chin into that ten o’clock dike, the dam would burst forth with edgy cops with hearts of gold, horny doctors still adherent to the Hippocratic Oath and lawyers who’ll do anything to win, but they won’t do that (No, no, they won’t do that.)

I never saw an episode of Southland, the most recent NBC cop show to bite the dust. I suspect I wouldn’t have bothered to, either, as the promotions department kept throwing out the tidbit that the show featured “the first primetime gay policeman!” like the whole show would rest on that plot point as some sort of radical departure for broadcast TV. NBC has Must See TV and gay cops! This, friends, is what is known as a stunt. What would have been revolutionary would have been to have that same character in the program and not made such a stink about it. It just is; no need to shout from the 30 Rock rooftops, “It’s here, he’s queer, watch NBC!”

Television critics have taken to calling the past decade a new golden age of TV, and they may be right. Among all the half-wits clamoring to be famous for fifteen reality-filled minutes, and all the other half-wits who were formally famous and now trying to reclaim notoriety by putting on tights and shaking their groove things, we’ve also had shows about Mob families and their regular families, siblings who run a mortuary, an advertising agency, vampires, and foul-mouthed, crudely animated children who usually find something potent to say about current events, all the while marveling at the massive girth of feces. We’ve had shows about police as well, but The Wire was also about politics, journalism and the lives of the criminals and seldom-seen that tie the three institutions together. Cable TV has succeeded in mining new veins for drama by looking into entirely different caves. The only standard broadcast program to come close to this nirvana of creativity is the long-running Lost, a show indebted to the viewer’s desire to engage in mindgames and, not so subtly, to the British drama from the late 1960s, The Prisoner.

An Americanized redux of The Prisoner is underway as well, and while the notion first causes me to wince, I have to remind myself that the most insightful program about politics, religion and the human condition in I don’t know how long was based on the bones of an often campy Star Wars clone from the 1970s. Who thought the Battlestar Galactica reboot could have been as well executed as it was? Who thought, initially, it should have been rebooted at all? That it took the framework of something that was better left to memory, turned it inside out, then retrofitted it into a modern allegory once again indicates where the best minds have been hanging out, and it’s not over at the Big Four. Sure, House isn’t bad, but there isn’t much else over at Fox that screams “revolutionary.” “Exploitative,” maybe. And over at CBS, they have two NCIS shows now, three C.S.I.’s with the threat of a fourth looming on the horizon, and a wide swath of C.S.I.-like shows littering their schedules with mutilated corpses. They learned their lessons well, yes they did. They learned from NBC, which found that cloned Law & Order shows practically sell themselves until, apparently, they don’t.

That’s why you get Leno five times a week. See, without him, you would get policemen five times a week, or lawyers five times a week, or surgeons five times a week, not a new wrinkle to be had in the lot. Don’t mourn the loss of these dramas because you’re not really losing all that much, simply a carbon copy after a Xerox of a mimeograph. But I’m fairly confident you knew this already, which is why cable viewership has, in aggregate, managed to eat away at its freebie cousins. There is a simple honesty to Mr. Jay’s show, and that in and of itself should be considered a breath of fresh air. They’re feeding you the same old story Monday through Friday, but they always have.  At least they’re not trying to convince you that “it’s new to you” now.

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  • What we would get without Leno is scripted drama, well produced, and featuring real actors. The Leno thing is just a way for the network to save money, and it's failing miserably.
  • There was a time when you turned to the 10:00 timeslot and were given something of substance. My analogy is that the township is taking down the patch of woods and are putting in a gas station. It really could have been a park or something that gives the area meaning, but it's going to be another gas station. Still, it's hard to break a sweat over it because had it not been so, they'd have put in the 100th bank or the 100th Dunkin Donuts.

    Leno's just filling the hole that would have just been filled with stagnant sameness. I'd feel so much more deprived if I thought they had a mind-blowing brand new thing waiting for me. But I just know they don't.
  • But you could have said the same thing just before Hill Street Blues aired for the first time, or NYPD Blue, or LA Law, or the West Wing, or Lost. I don't think that you can predict when a quality show might appear. Yes, you have to go through a lot of crap until you get one, but without those five prime time hours a week, there's that much less of a chance that we'll get a high quality adult drama. It's a numbers game.
  • Am I the only who's amused by a big Leno banner ad next to this piece?

    Agreed on most of this, but I think there's still new stuff on broadcast nets that are good. I'm liking FlashForward, Curb is showing us how to do reunions and Glee is campy fun. As for other recent shows, 24 brought a new format to TV and shows like Heroes and Chuck weren't the same old subjects.
  • sandradavies
    Look, if you're going to talk about a show (Southland) at least know what you're talking about. Give me one example of NBC promoting Southland as having “the first primetime gay policeman!”. Are you kidding? There are STILL people who aren't sure if the character is gay because it was NEVER discussed or shown, just hinted at. And while it may not be a big deal, it certainly takes away from your credibility and will make me question anything I read of yours in the future. Maybe you should check out an episode or two of anything you're going to discuss in the future to avoid looking less than reliable.
  • Guest
  • Lori
    So being touted on the Today Show (how many times? Once?) and at the upfronts equals "kept throwing out"? I never saw one commercial where they were pushing that angle. They ended up letting it slowly play out on the show, dropping hints within it but never outright confirming that the character was gay. The general public doesn't really know what the hell is going on at the upfronts so anything said there was for advertisers and not viewers.

    There's a reason NBC is in last place so much of the time these days.
  • lhha
    Exactly. To Mr. Dunphy - If you are going to speak to something please have something to back it up. Show us where NBC themselves put that out there.
  • sabrina
    Aww. You're adorable with your banner ad for Leno and your links to where we can buy all the various shows that, I would assume, you shoehorned into this entry in hopes that someone, somewhere might click on it, buy a set of DVDs and, as a result, send a few cents your way as thanks from amazon. You use a lot of cute buzzwords so that we'll know that you're serious and you know your stuff. And then you...what?

    I'm dying to see one of these "Southland" ads you speak of. Please, please, please post a link. I mean, surely someone recorded and uploaded one since NBC was showing them *all* the time. Maybe you have an episode of Leno left in the DVR? I'm sure they would have run an ad for a new season during their pet time slot, right? I mean before they cancelled it, of course. Oh, wait...they didn't run *any* ads this season. Or that many this summer. Or that many after the season premiere last spring. And prior to that? No ads with any indication that Cudlitz's character was gay. Ever. It wasn't implied until a couple of episodes in and in spite of a nice moment at the end of the season finale, was still never actually confirmed it. That's because the writing was good. And the acting was good. They let us figure things out as we went along. The only thing that ads on NBC did was show us that Ben McKenzie had a new show and a couple of episodes in someone was going to leave a baby in the middle of a busy Hollywood street. Nothing else.

    It's hard to take someone's opinion piece seriously when they, for no apparent reason, throw in a total fabrication. It didn't help your point, dude, so why?
  • Guest
    Again, not a fabrication. NBC has been filtering this through their outlets. Why? Because they can't put it directly in the ads because it would be too controversial and some of the more radical right-wing groups would launch protests. But to reflect on your sarcasm, using The Today Show as the talking-point springboard, or by using the possibility of the character's sexuality as a hot-button angle when selling to potential advertisers looking for a network show that would compete with cable, none of these are advertising in and of itself. Not in the slightest. Not even a little bit.

    By the way, none of this changes the fact that NBC only gave you it's 1,000th cop show which is the point you drove past on the way to the stoning in the town square.
  • sabrina
    Show us.
  • Just to quibble with one small detail: Dw. isn't in control of the ads we run. They're largely contextually based, actually -- when I ran my column about how much I hate Jay Leno and his stupid new show, the same banner showed up.
  • paisleymoon18
    NONE of the SouthLAnd promos hinted to the fact the character John Cooper was gay. There were very subtle hints along the way, but not until the last episode, did the viewers receive concrete proof – concrete proof as in a look that was given from John Cooper to a male friend. There were no promos saying “It’s here, he’s queer, watch NBC!”

    Next time before you critique something, it might behoove you to actually watch the program or see the promos, so you do not come off as ignorant. As for my next statement, this is my opinion only – I love cop, doctor, lawyer shows and there is nothing wrong in taking a concept and revamping it. A lot of great of fiction writers do this all the time and students are encouraged to do so. It’s what the people like and want, and SouthLAnd contained that interesting twist off a classic genre.
  • Deb
    I would like a link please to ANY SouthLAnd promo that touted “the first primetime gay policeman!” I've seen them all. I didn't see that one.

    Michael Cudlitz's performance as Officer John Cooper is so amazing, so subtle that we LOYAL viewers of one of the best TV dramas (cop genre or not) are still not quite certain of Coop's sexuality. As a matter of fact, no one cares. Coop does his job as a professional. His private life is his own. Now isn't that a refreshing change for a character in a drama? I think so.

    WHEN SouthLAnd returns to television, I suggest you watch it. You've missed some great TV.
  • So basically what you're saying is that because cop, lawyer and doctor shows have been done upteen times already then writers shouldn't bother trying to come up with a new concept of one. That one might be different than ones that have been on in recent years? That the actors might be able to bring a little something extra? That the crew might not be able to film it differently so it has a different feel? Read you loud and clear. You don't like cop, lawyer and doctor shows, so they shouldn't be made anymore or on television anymore.
  • I like something different. Cable is bringing lots of that now and the ratings swing is a strong indicator. You truly don't believe that the networks have been oversaturated by these three subjects? I'm not saying they shouldn't try, but at the risk of losing new subjects for the same tried-by-not-lately-true? And I certainly believe an actor, writer or dedicated crew would bring just as much, probably more, energy and love to a fresh subject?
  • I do think there's a lot of them out there yes and I'll admit I do like those kinds of shows, however I only watch a tiny fraction of the ones that are on because I don't feel they're well done or they plain just don't interest me. That being said, (and as I said below) Southland was different and deserves to be seen. Trauma and Mercy? Blah. Whatever. (Trauma, btw has a gay character too.) But before writing off those two shows, I gave them a chance. I watched them. I probably still would watch them for lack of anything else on those nights, but they're on NBC and NBC isn't watched in my household anymore.
  • Okay then, as so many have rushed to the defense of Southland, I think it is important to note that I got the information about the show from other NBC programs such as The Today Show. I fully admitted to never seeing an episode, if you'll recall, so if I have received this info from NBC programming, that's NBC advertising. Now, of course they didn't have a commercial that would directly "out" the character because it would bring down the wrath of right-wing letter-writing campaigns, but if you filter your angle through other shows, is that not advertising? Isn't that, in fact, what they're selling?

    My point, which is the one everyone's passing up while on their way to stringing me up, is that a daring move would be for NBC to say NOTHING about it and let it be. They, instead, wanted to have their cake and eat it too. That paragraph was never meant to infuriate the Popdose readers, but there's no way I would outright make up something to shove along an unrelated argument. You can choose to believe that or disbelieve that if you will, but I still find it strange you'd believe that I would reach this assumption unbidden, even though the network has been feeding the line.
  • Yes, it would have been daring to not use the gay angle in internal promotions, but even if they hadn't, then as you said, it would have been just another 'edgy cop with a heart of gold'. How would you know? You never watched it. It was a different show. It was filmed live on the streets of L.A., not in a studio. We haven't had a good cop show that showed patrol cops in quite a while and this was a realistic one and to have a writer like you saying we're better off with Leno is just WRONG, especially since you never watched it.

    I do however give you credit for admitting not watching it in the original article.
  • I'm not saying Leno is better, not by a long shot. I am really asking why must it always be the lawyers, cops and doctors? Even if Southland is good, why must network TV be so fixated? This is why cable is on the rise and free-broadcast is on the downward slope. Without Leno, if Southland was still canceled, it would be replaced by another cop show, which might be replaced mid-season by yet another cop show.

    By no stretch of the imagination am I advocating that there's gold on Jay's show, but I am stating unequivocally that the network hasn't the wit to do something particularly imaginative with the slot either, so it's not like you're missing all that much by him being there. And the network still has Saturday night and Sunday night open. They could still put Southland on at the 10:00 slot there if they wanted to. We'll see if that's the case down the line - but I am guessing they just saw it as another cop show too...
  • Hang on - "This is why cable is on the rise and free-broadcast is on the downward slope"? Because the cable stations are producing so darned many dramas that aren't about cops, lawyers, or doctors? Purely talking about dramas, cable stations are just as guilty about the obsession with this cliche'd trifecta as the free-broadcast networks - you do realize that, right? USA Networks, TNT, HBO - they're airing some well-regarded and highly-viewed dramas, but they aren't exactly breaking new ground on subject matter - cops, lawyers, doctors, and criminals, ahoy.
  • austie
    Please, don't do the martyr thing. You said some provocative things and some things that make your credibility suspect. People came in and responded, which, I assume is what you're soliciting, no? Personally, I find it hard to take seriously the indictment of a show for being the "same old" from someone who hasn't seen it. How would you know? There's nothing new under the sun, so it's all in the execution. You don't know how Southland was executed because you didn't bother to tune in.
  • Arend_Anton
    My production partner has been working art department on Eastwick, and they're struggling against Leno in that 10PM time slot. Okay, so I haven't seen Eastwick and don't know if it's any good, but if it gets cancelled that means he loses his job and we might not have the money to finish my film. So there's a selfish reason I'm upset at Leno.
  • What confounds me is that Fox cuts off at 10:00 and throws to local affiliates. If NBC did that, then brought Leno on at 10:30 or 11:00, he'd have kept his base together. He'd still suck but the change would have worked.
  • Elaine
    But Conan wouldn't have gone for that. It would have made him the second half of the Jay & Conan Show. (I think Conan sucks, too, myself.)
  • molly2021
    If Leno was back at the 11 slot then it would just be The Tonight Show and we wouldn't be talking about any of this in the first place. Leno can't be on at 10:30 either because of the 11:00 local news that now I believe runs on a later schedule (don’t quote me on that). There was really no place for him. But because he was given the primetime slot it not only affected NBC but also all the other networks. Everyone had to rearrange their schedules. Giving Leno the 10 slot was and still is a big deal.
    Personally I think Southland could have gone on Tuesdays. Think about it, do we really need 2 hours of the Biggest loser?
  • wowyouredumb
    I'm trying to think of an intelligent response to your opinion. But that would be a waste of my time - you can't fix stupid, so I'm not going to bother to try.
    You should get a job as an NBC power to be. You'd fit right in.
  • Mom?
  • It's always the people who don't have the courage to use their own names who have the most to say.
  • farawaydeb
    "... if I have received this info from NBC programming, that's NBC advertising. Now, of course they didn't have a commercial that would directly "out" the character ..."

    That's called backpedaling. You said, "... THE PROMOTIONS DEPARTMENT KEPT THROWING OUT THE TIDBIT that the show featured “the first primetime gay policeman!” like the whole show would rest on that plot point ..."

    YOU receiving some info from NBC programming is NOT the same as the promotions department KEPT throwing out the tidbit. Your credibility is in the toilet, and you put it there. Might as well flush.

    Southland is an excellent show, and I'd rather watch repeats of Southland than new shows with Leno any time. Why don't retired people STAY retired anymore? Especially the millionaires that can afford to! (Johnny Carson didn't come back!) Some of us LIKE cops, lawyers, doctors, nurses, etc. and are bored to death with talk shows.
  • I sent out a message to some of those who have commented here tonight via Twitter. So far, I have received nothing back. I am now going to reiterate it here: For those who truly want to say something in deference to or in defense of Southland, you can contact me and I will post it as part of my column next week.

    There are some strings: Two paragraphs, stating the case as well as you (meaning whomever) can, nothing like "The show is awesome and anyone who says differently sucks." Pitch this like you can actually make a difference, not like you're assessing toothpaste brands. Give the readers who didn't see the show (which would be me) information as to why they might be misled about what the show really is (apparently me) and why they should disabuse themselves of their preconceptions.

    Oh, and you have to include your real name. No contact info is necessary unless you want it to be visible, but I will not, for a single moment cede a line to anyone hiding behind a screen-name. Pooky78 gets no love in this process.

    That's my challenge. I've obviously touched a nerve (or played the Star Spangled Banner with it, a'la Jimi, if these responses have been any indication) - But as has always been Popdose.com's policy, world have your say.

    I look forward to hearing from all who want in on this.
  • Count me in. Two paragraphs stating the case for SL informatively. :)
  • Send your statement to dunphyetc@aol.com. I promise that it will run without edits or 'watering down'.
  • austie
    I don't get it. Why would I defend a show to someone who has never seen it? Why don't YOU put your money where your mouth is, sit down, and watch it? The only way to combat ignorance is to investigate what you admit you're ignorant about. That's your responsibility, not mine. Then we can have a reasonable discussion based on the merits of what we've both seen.

    Oh, and I keep my identity on the 'net private. If you can't take me seriously without outing me to cyberspace, then I'll leave you to it.
  • You're defending it to the public, not directly at me but you've already said that I represent something that's holding this show back in some way. Consider it your petition, if you will. I'm offering you my space to do it, provided you use your real name to stand up to the claim. You refuse that particular aspect of the offer. I won't speculate why, but if you're going to stand up to me and shout "ignorant", it would carry more weight if you weren't doing so covered by your alias.

    Being vocal behind a disguise? Anyone can do that, Austie. Matter of fact Internet commentary is mostly about the bravery of being out of the glare, but I've put my name on the line. Why wouldn't you?
  • paisleymoon18
    Sorry, I didn't see your question. However, I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the opportunity.
  • Send your statement to dunphyetc@aol.com. I promise that it will run without edits or 'watering down'.
  • molly2021
    This sounds like an invitation for a shootout at the Ok Corral or better yet a hostage negotiation. But it sounds fun. In all seriousness, it looks like most of us here know what were talking about and would be glad to explain it in greater detail. 2 paragraphs like you stated in your "demands". =]
    I'll bring the duffle bag full of "money" and you watch the show. Because it really is good. And I honestly do hope you enjoy it! =]
  • Send your statement to dunphyetc@aol.com. I promise that it will run without edits or 'watering down'.
  • austie
    You said: "What would have been revolutionary would have been to have that same character in the program and not made such a stink about it. It just is; no need to shout from the 30 Rock rooftops, 'It’s here, he’s queer, watch NBC!'"

    Two things. First, you clearly never saw a Southland promo, since not once was the gay angle mentioned. As of the end of Season 1, it hadn't even been more than implied on the show, so I guess, according to your own criteria, you'd need to acknowledge that the show is indeed revolutionary. Second, you comment unfavorably on a show you admit you never saw. You have no credibility.
  • Don't even get me started on your complete ignorance of Southland.

    That aside, there's are three reasons the networks are all about the lawyers, cops, and doctors these days: One, of course, is that - because they think, perhaps rightly, that (most?) viewers are idiots, they're too unwilling to risk funding anything too original, and hence want "the next ER", or "the next Law and Order". The second is that standards have evolved in the last decade or two, so it'd be basically impossible to produce, today, "the next Cheers", for example, or "the next Taxi". The third is that everything is all about advertising revenue now, and the internet basically means that you have to - or should - not stray far if at all into any areas even potentially controversial or offensive, because some stay-at-home-mom with too much time on her hands will organize a boycott of your advertisers if you so much as allude to something that offends her delicate sensibilities.

    Anyway, not all cop shows are created equal. Dixon of Dock Green was nothing like Dragnet was nothing like CHiPS was nothing like Hill Street Blues was nothing like The Thin Blue Line was nothing like NYPD Blue was nothing like CSI was nothing like NCIS was nothing like Law and Order was nothing like Blue Heelers was nothing like The Wire was nothing like Southland. Medical dramas might be a little more interchangeable, but ER still paved the way for Scrubs and the Welsh drama Crash, none of which is the least bit alike, so I like to think there's a bit of hope for the genre, still.

    But, heaven forbid we be subjected to yet another "cop show", right? Because they're all the same, after all, and always will be, I guess. Better to go with a talk show, right? Because that hasn't been done to death a million times before, yeah? Holy cow, some stand-up jokes followed by brief self-promotional appearances by celebutants and some lip-sync'd performance by a band I'm not hip enough to have heard of - where do I sign up for more of this incredibly exciting and utterly unique idea? A big fan of that one guy who was in that one thing, and who is trying to revive his career in this new remake of that old thing you loved as a kid? Don't worry if you miss his appearance on the Jay Leno show tonight - he'll be on Conan's show tomorrow, or Craig Ferguson the day after, and if you miss him saying the same handful of things all those times, I guess you can TiVO his appearance on Rosie or Oprah or Ellen or...

    Yeah, talk shows are the perfect solution to the "more of the same" syndrome television has come down with, I completely agree.
  • Again, talk shows are NOT the answer. New dramas with new subjects may not fully be the answer, but it is a creative start, don't you think?
  • But, you just took away 5 hours of prime time slots to give them to Jay Leno. You're backpedaling again.

    "But give Jay the teeny-tiniest break here. What would they have run in that slot if they hadn’t taken the big gamble? As I’ve said many times before: lawyers, cops and doctors. If for no better reason, give the big man a pat on the back for at least momentarily derailing the same old hackneyed, worn out and blood-drained train of thought that has plagued these “wonderful” nighttime dramas lo these many, many moons."

    They could have used those slots for a creative start! Can't have it both ways Dw.
  • New dramas with new subjects? Great idea, never going to happen.

    I'd be happy if we could just get away from cookie-cutter ensemble shows full of largely lifeless, unmotivated, and unmemorable characters and have more shows with, you know, one or two top-billed stars in them, playing fleshed-out leading roles that you can still remember something about an hour later. A show where it's, you know, "Dr. House and his posse try to diagnose and save a seriously ill patient, while dodging the machinations of hospital bureaucracy", rather than "a whole bunch of young white doctors and nurses whose named I can't keep straight and which don't really matter anyway struggle through yet another incredibly dramatic and stressful day full of crazy people and gory mass-casualty incidents in a Chicago emergency room".

    Or, as could almost have been the case with Southland, were NBC not committed to killing drama, original or otherwise, "seasoned beat cop John Cooper and his slightly arrogant rich rookie partner Ben Sherman try to survive on the mean and dangerous streets of Los Angeles, where human life is cheap and you never know where your backup is, whether they're sober, and if they're going to suddenly snap and start killing innocent bystanders." Ah, well.

    It wasn't the greatest cop show ever - it might have had the chance to become a contender, had it lived for another season - but it was the best and most original cop show on network television in recent years; if the networks are going to give us cop, lawyer, and doctor shows, which seems to be the case, is it so much to ask that they at least give us *good* ones that don't completely suck? Apparently...
  • molly2021
    You can turn your TV off you know. You seem upset.
  • Smilla
    I don't think the word "creative" means what you think it means.
  • Ted
    I'm so happy about the props you gave to Battlestar Galactica!
  • lexi5983
    Here's a tip for you. Before you go writing something about a show like Southland, you might want to actually do some real research on the show, instead of just making crap up as you go along. Never, not anywhere in the entire season, was the subject of a "gay" cop ever discussed, or even hinted at, so how do you know Cooper was/is in fact gay? You don't, because you said it yourself, you never watched the show. Just like I've never heard of you, so I won't make false statements, such as you have no idea what you're talking about (oops, sorry, Freudian slip). Ok, ok, you get SOME credit for being honest about not watching the show, but as Forest Gump once said, "Stupid is as stupid does."
  • Elaine
    Andy Towle and E! disagree with you (April, 2009): http://www.towleroad.com/2009/04/southlands-gay...
  • lexi5983
    Did you watch the same show as me? Cuz I do not recall ever actually hearing any character say "so-and-so is gay" or "i'm gay" or anything to that effect. Besides, I seriously doubt the "journalism" of anyone who works at the E! network. I mean, come on. How much more are we going to (excuse the pun) beat the Michael Jackson story to death? If anyone on the show had actually said, or even mentioned Copper being gay, then you'd have something. But it didn't happen. So I can't put much faith in something when there's no proof.
  • johnjohnjohn
    I did give Leno a break and watched the first 2 episodes which was more than I ever gave during his tenure hosting the Tonight Show.

    I did enjoy Southland, there was something about it that was different and it wasn't the gay cop storyline since it was a fleeting occurrence. You and other reviewers of show biz culture got the promo PR's regarding Southland, not the average viewer. The "It's here, it's queer' was a bit much I think.

    I'm no fan of most cops shows excepting L&O on occasion (ok my partner watches it every chance he gets), but I feel they should give Leno an Ed Sullivan type show on Sundays or perhaps his own anglo El Sabado Gigante, a 3 hour variety show on Saturday nights, just not 5 nights a week.
  • molly2021
    It's very hard to take someone's opinion seriously when they have openly admitted that they have never seen the show that they're about to criticize in the first place. And yes, we would get policemen, lawyers, or doctors five times a week, but we would also get Conan and other late night programs as well five times a week. So there's no reason to interrupt primetime with another talk show when we can wait for late night. If you can't stay up that late invest in a dvr (that’s what there for). The primetime slots are for the drama and comedy shows, not for the talk shows. Maybe next time in your in depth research you could watch the show for free on Hulu, and not a 1 minute clip of the Today show. Seriously, I'm trying very hard not to be sarcastic.
    And I’m sorry to say this because Leno is a very nice guy, but when I watch his new show, I feel like I’m watching grandpa trying to entertain us kids before we go to bed.
  • DW, I have to say I agree with a lot of posters here, maybe you need to watch a couple of episodes of Southland befor deeming it "just another cop show", and maybe at least agree to the fact that the information you recieved is information the general public did not.

    That said I agree with facebook10337999556, there is something different about Southland. Having worked for a PD and worked and know several police officers very well, I can tell you that most cop shows are not watched by real police officers, and those that do pick apart the show for its mistakes. I know several officers who actually watched Southland and enjoyed it because it was realistic, it doesn't show things glossed over and make their work seem like pure f'n magic that anyone can do. It's become a joke with my partner and I to see who can solve the L&O or CSI crime each week before the detectives do. Usually before the first commercial we have bets on it and watch the rest of the show to see who was right. That never happened when watching Southland we never knew what was going to happen next. The gay thing was so subtle that even someone that has a pretty acurate gaydar as myself didn't have a suspicion until I think episode 5, and to be honest, I'm still not sure.

    Southland is a great show far detached from the "ripped from the headlines" shows and even further from the dramas that have the main theme around who is screwing who.
  • Rob D
    Wow, there's great journalism. Hmm let me see here. You are speaking of a show you NEVER watched? You have no right to comment on it and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you want to get rid of a tired cop show I would say nix Law and Order Criminal Intent, and CSI Miami (Thats on CBS though). Southland was the freshest "COP" show to come along in a LONG time. The ambiguously gay Cop you speak of isnt even hinted at in the slightest until the last episode of last season, but we aren't talking flamboyant like many of the shows that feature homosexual stereotyped performances. This is the only show that was NBC that anyone is talking about, them canning it made no sense... Well unless you are FX or TNT which will be smart enough to pick it up.
  • Rob D
    Wow, there's great journalism. Hmm let me see here. You are speaking of a show you NEVER watched? You have no right to comment on it and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you want to get rid of a tired cop show I would say nix Law and Order Criminal Intent, and CSI Miami (Thats on CBS though). Southland was the freshest "COP" show to come along in a LONG time. The ambiguously gay Cop you speak of isnt even hinted at in the slightest until the last episode of last season, but we aren't talking flamboyant like many of the shows that feature homosexual stereotyped performances. This is the only show that was NBC that anyone is talking about, them canning it made no sense... Well unless you are FX or TNT which will be smart enough to pick it up.
  • MC_Snocap
    When NBC's 10pm plans were first announced, my reaction was "I never tuned in for ER or Law and Order: Formulaic, so can't get riled about Leno." That took a big hit when some exec crowed to the press that primetime Leno would be considered successful even if viewership took a dive because the show was cheap enough to offer a better financial return. It's great to know that GE isn't even trying to appeal to viewers so much as squeeze the most dollars out of the public airspace.

    Then there the pre-premiere declarations that the show would be retooled, and not simply an earlier version of Leno's 11:30 model. If you had any doubts that Leno at 10 wasn't a mercenary, anti-creative move, see if you can find what NBC touted as a significant change from 11:30. Even if the hours had gone to more dross I'd avoid, there's something to be said for presenting new slants on old genres with fresh faces and different creators. Chances are they'd be focus grouped into nuthin', but at least there's a chance they won't.

    Couple other gripes. If NBC wants to innovate but come up with less costly programming, is Jay Leno the way to do it? They (and Lorne Michaels) managed to develop Conan from essentially nowhere back in the day; find someone new and less pricy, and make novelty and your gamble what draws samplers to him (or her - if that's not too out of the box for the network.)

    Finally, I wouldn't rail on NBC's promotional department getting their tentacles into the Today Show as part of any argument supporting the celeb-happy, cult-of-personality plug-a-thon that is the network chat show.
  • sabrina
    I don't want to write your column for you, but I would still like to see the NBC press material for "Southland" that focused so heavily on Cudlitz's character's sexual orientation. If they were doing it and you're going to use it so prominently in your argument against the show then we should get to see what they were saying.
  • gingercara
    You never saw an episode of SouthLAnd, obviously never saw the promos (not once in any promo was there mention of a gay cop) so how can you comment and write an "article"? Get your facts straight before writing an article, better yet watch the show before saying anything. SouthLAnd is not your typical cop show, it is gritty and real and shows what it is like to be a cop in LA.
  • WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US WHY WON'T YOU LEAVE US ALOOOOOOOONE
  • Also: "first primetime gay policeman"? Have you people forgotten Officer Zitelli on Barney Miller?
  • Elaine
    Well, I won't defend Leno. (ptooey) But I will defend Dw.

    I will paraphrase the gist of what (it seems to me) he was saying: I didn't watch a single minute of Southland, because it LOOKED LIKE IT WAS GOING TO BE yet another gritty cop drama and there's too much of that crap on TV already. To be more specific, there's too much of that crap on tv that I already don't watch, already. Why? Because that crap has been on tv since I was in high school, and I am tired of cop dramas. Personal preference. No need to hate.

    Point of fact, this one was touted as being more realistic than all the others combined, which to me means either 1) it's like "Cops," 2) it's like watching one of the other myriad cop shows while listening to the scanner, or 3) it's like watching the news. My news happens to be the Los Angeles market, and let me tell you; yuck. No, thanks.

    But all this consternation might be for nothing, anyway.

    Southland moves toward TNT network
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_dis...

    So now this show that is so important to so many can continue on a network where I will continue not watching it. Let's all be friends again. Who saw Glee this week?

    :peace out:
  • Thank you Elaine. You've essentially said what I wanted to, but was unable to with my workboot in my mouth.
  • Elaine
    We shouldn't be surprised that it's hard for stunt-replyers to properly see the argument about stunt-casting. I don't think you had foot-in-mouth disease -- people are just assholes.
  • I think there's a simple answer or explanation to this. Some TV shows just go on too long -- they don't know when to quit. Leno has been going for umpteen years, and at this point he's going through the motions. Did you know he does 150 stand-up dates a year, in addition to his late-night shows/prime time show? When does he ever find time to drive his antique cars? If Leno took about three or four years off, maybe he'd come back with a fresh angle and be entertaining again.

    I thought Smallville was great when it started, but somewhere along season five it started to lose momentum. When John Schneider left the cast, it was like the heart went out of it. But they're still beating the dead horse in season nine.

    Maybe it was a merciful thing that Firefly only lasted 14 episodes or so. If it had continued, it might well have descended into freaky plots, unnatural mutations of characters, or other maladies.

    By the way, I think cop shows can be done from now until kingdom come, but not if they are all made with the standard Hollywood template. I enjoyed 10 episodes of ABC's The Unusuals earlier this year, and I don't know if it could have been a great show, but it was different, and entertaining to me. Foyle's War is essentially a cop show, is it not? It was fantastic from beginning to end. One thing about British television, they do not force a schedule of 22 episodes per year, letting quality take an upper hand over quantity. This is a big flaw in most American television, and one reason why IMO shows are so prone to burning out or going off the rails.
  • donna_17
    So, do you ever actually WATCH shows before forming your opinions of them?

    You watch at least the pilot and then I'll bother telling you my opinions of the show.
  • Tory
    You my friend... made the list as this months most uninformed and dumb writter... o wait... there was another homophobe on the dead of a boy band singer....mmmmmhm
  • davidehrenstein
    There was a gay cop on the show. But at no point was a "big deal" made of it. It wasn't a gimmick. It was actually quite interesting. But then you neevr watched the show so you have no idea of who the character was or how he functioned in the story. Not that would stop you from mouthing off about that which know absolutely nothing.
  • I sure am glad that the fag cop show was canceled before he actually said that he was a fag.

    Phew. That was a close one.
  • You're well within your rights to criticize Dunphy for speaking out of turn about a show he hasn't seen, but I don't think his comments were homophobic, I think he was expressing distaste at what he saw as network stunt promotions. There's no reason to turn this whole thing into something it isn't.
  • I've been polite with the folks who have not fully read what I wrote. I will expound more on this on Thursday. But I'm saying you're out of line, flat out. Read it again. Didn't you see I was offended by the belief that they were using this aspect like a sales stunt? Obviously not. You saw "gay character" in the body of the text and inserted your own incorrect interpretation rather than reading what I wrote.

    You may call me ignorant. Thursday's column will find you in agreement. You may call me stupid and dumb, because that's a mainstay leveled at anyone who writes on the Internet. But don't call me a homophobe. If I'm saying that the most radical thing NBC could have done was have a gay character and not made hay over it, just let it be what it is, don't you dare call me a homophobe. It has all the offensive overtones of me saying, "I wish NBC wouldn't make a deal over the captain being black. It would be better if the captain was just black, let it be what this is," and you responding that I'm a racist.

    My ignorance was exactly what most of these commenters have already said: I based a paragraph of this column on loose information that should have been tightened up (and in this case, discarded outright) because I didn't actually watch the show. I said that in the column as well. Did you read that or did you casually scan over that too? Bloody dead on, that was ignorance and my rush to write before I did all my homework has created for this column a big, fat failing grade.

    I have been grilled about this column for the past week and have taken the majority of the comments with a lot of soul-searching, even the ones that were the most directly harsh toward me. You however have pissed me off.
  • Frankly, the fact that there was no big publicity stunt and no big trumpeting in any promos that the cop was gay, and you never even saw the show, but still complained that they mentioned too many times that the cop was gay, makes me question your motives. I think it's more than reasonable to infer that you were upset a gay character existed at all, since you blatantly misrepresented NBC promotions, and used those misrepresentations to justify why you would never watch the show. It's a common refrain from people who are uncomfortable with gay people to complain that gay people should "just so mentioning it so much. Let your private life remain private!", while ignoring the fact that no heterosexual does the same. But just as you don't know Southland, I don't know you, so maybe you're not a homophobe. But don't act all shocked when people think you might be.
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