Comments on: Pop Politico: “Master and Servant” http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/ your daily dose of pop culture Fri, 25 May 2012 23:57:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Political Culture: The Bush Administration’s Funny Games | Popdosehttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-4852 Political Culture: The Bush Administration’s Funny Games | Popdose Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:30:35 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-4852 [...] Py Korry’s excellent piece the other day about the John Woo torture memo got me thinking about, of all things, a movie trailer that I saw repeatedly over the holidays while haunting the local art houses. The trailer is for an upcoming remake of the 1997 Austrian horror film Funny Games; the new version stars Naomi Watts, Tim Roth and Michael Pitt, and was directed by the same guy who did the original, Michael Haneke. It’s due in theaters March 14, and it looks like nothing so much as a feature-length extension of the “Singin’ In The Rain” scene from A Clockwork Orange. [...] [...] Py Korry’s excellent piece the other day about the John Woo torture memo got me thinking about, of all things, a movie trailer that I saw repeatedly over the holidays while haunting the local art houses. The trailer is for an upcoming remake of the 1997 Austrian horror film Funny Games; the new version stars Naomi Watts, Tim Roth and Michael Pitt, and was directed by the same guy who did the original, Michael Haneke. It’s due in theaters March 14, and it looks like nothing so much as a feature-length extension of the “Singin’ In The Rain” scene from A Clockwork Orange. [...]

]]> By: erichttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-52584 eric Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:09:26 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-52584 You don't seem to have grasped that I'm agreeing with you. (I am not defending the President. I think Lincoln was wrong, too. FDR interred the Japanese. Chief executives do these kinds of things, in violation of human rights, in extreme situations.) But I am agreeing with you from the standpoint of human rights emanating from God, as stipulated correctly in our founding documents as a nation. And we should stand for those principles. Bush should have been stronger. However, what we see in leaders on both the left and right is an inability to stand up for principles. That was the point about Clinton using rendition. Not to defend it or Bush. Good grief. I am more of a Ron Paul kind of conservative -- clearly not in Bush's camp on a lot of issues. You don't seem to have grasped that I'm agreeing with you. (I am not defending the President. I think Lincoln was wrong, too. FDR interred the Japanese. Chief executives do these kinds of things, in violation of human rights, in extreme situations.) But I am agreeing with you from the standpoint of human rights emanating from God, as stipulated correctly in our founding documents as a nation. And we should stand for those principles. Bush should have been stronger. However, what we see in leaders on both the left and right is an inability to stand up for principles. That was the point about Clinton using rendition. Not to defend it or Bush. Good grief. I am more of a Ron Paul kind of conservative — clearly not in Bush's camp on a lot of issues.

]]> By: erichttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-41371 eric Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:09:26 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-41371 You don't seem to have grasped that I'm agreeing with you. (I am not defending the President. I think Lincoln was wrong, too. FDR interred the Japanese. Chief executives do these kinds of things, in violation of human rights, in extreme situations.) But I am agreeing with you from the standpoint of human rights emanating from God, as stipulated correctly in our founding documents as a nation. And we should stand for those principles. Bush should have been stronger. However, what we see in leaders on both the left and right is an inability to stand up for principles. That was the point about Clinton using rendition. Not to defend it or Bush. Good grief. I am more of a Ron Paul kind of conservative -- clearly not in Bush's camp on a lot of issues. You don't seem to have grasped that I'm agreeing with you. (I am not defending the President. I think Lincoln was wrong, too. FDR interred the Japanese. Chief executives do these kinds of things, in violation of human rights, in extreme situations.) But I am agreeing with you from the standpoint of human rights emanating from God, as stipulated correctly in our founding documents as a nation. And we should stand for those principles. Bush should have been stronger. However, what we see in leaders on both the left and right is an inability to stand up for principles. That was the point about Clinton using rendition. Not to defend it or Bush. Good grief. I am more of a Ron Paul kind of conservative — clearly not in Bush's camp on a lot of issues.

]]> By: erichttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-21554 eric Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:09:26 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-21554 You don't seem to have grasped that I'm agreeing with you. (I am not defending the President. I think Lincoln was wrong, too. FDR interred the Japanese. Chief executives do these kinds of things, in violation of human rights, in extreme situations.) But I am agreeing with you from the standpoint of human rights emanating from God, as stipulated correctly in our founding documents as a nation. And we should stand for those principles. Bush should have been stronger. However, what we see in leaders on both the left and right is an inability to stand up for principles. That was the point about Clinton using rendition. Not to defend it or Bush. Good grief. I am more of a Ron Paul kind of conservative -- clearly not in Bush's camp on a lot of issues. You don't seem to have grasped that I'm agreeing with you. (I am not defending the President. I think Lincoln was wrong, too. FDR interred the Japanese. Chief executives do these kinds of things, in violation of human rights, in extreme situations.) But I am agreeing with you from the standpoint of human rights emanating from God, as stipulated correctly in our founding documents as a nation. And we should stand for those principles. Bush should have been stronger. However, what we see in leaders on both the left and right is an inability to stand up for principles. That was the point about Clinton using rendition. Not to defend it or Bush. Good grief. I am more of a Ron Paul kind of conservative — clearly not in Bush's camp on a lot of issues.

]]> By: JonCummingshttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-21560 JonCummings Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:31:33 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-21560 Evidence on this is sketchy,and while Mayer said Clinton did use rendition she does NOT say he invented it, or that he used it for the purpose of torture. Others have said Clinton and previous administrations used rendition very rarely, to get foreign suspects prosecuted more quickly, not (or at least not merely) interrogated in ways that US laws prevent. There's no evidence that Clinton employed "black sites" or other nefarious Bush/Cheney inventions. Evidence on this is sketchy,and while Mayer said Clinton did use rendition she does NOT say he invented it, or that he used it for the purpose of torture. Others have said Clinton and previous administrations used rendition very rarely, to get foreign suspects prosecuted more quickly, not (or at least not merely) interrogated in ways that US laws prevent. There's no evidence that Clinton employed “black sites” or other nefarious Bush/Cheney inventions.

]]> By: JonCummingshttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-21555 JonCummings Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:14:28 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-21555 I'm with Jefito here. Every American should feel free to psychoanalyze the president; that's in large part what presidential elections are about these days, isn't it? Besides, when a president offers as much grist for the psychoanalytical mill as this one has, we really have no choice.<br><br>I'll add one thing to Jefito's defense of the Geneva Conventions and our (former) standing as a "white hat." Torture has been proven, time and time again, to NOT WORK. A president of the United States not only should uphold the Constitution and our treaty agreements--he should use common sense, and avoid atrocities that are going to inflame people around the world without any real informational benefit. I'm with Jefito here. Every American should feel free to psychoanalyze the president; that's in large part what presidential elections are about these days, isn't it? Besides, when a president offers as much grist for the psychoanalytical mill as this one has, we really have no choice.

I'll add one thing to Jefito's defense of the Geneva Conventions and our (former) standing as a “white hat.” Torture has been proven, time and time again, to NOT WORK. A president of the United States not only should uphold the Constitution and our treaty agreements–he should use common sense, and avoid atrocities that are going to inflame people around the world without any real informational benefit.

]]> By: jefitohttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-21559 jefito Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:32:02 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-21559 Clinton was a jiveass. Still, I would have assumed that after almost eight years, the right would have come up with a better retort than "Clinton did it." Clinton was a jiveass. Still, I would have assumed that after almost eight years, the right would have come up with a better retort than “Clinton did it.”

]]> By: erichttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-21558 eric Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:16:03 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-21558 Speakig of "outsourcing torture," according to the New Yorker piece "Outsourcing Torture" by Jane Mayer (Feb 14, 2005), rendition was a Clinton Administration invention. Credit where credit is due. Speakig of “outsourcing torture,” according to the New Yorker piece “Outsourcing Torture” by Jane Mayer (Feb 14, 2005), rendition was a Clinton Administration invention. Credit where credit is due.

]]> By: jefitohttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-21553 jefito Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:49:37 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-21553 Just a piece of paper? Just the Geneva Convention? How about our ideals as a nation, Eric? How about the fact that we're supposed to be the white hats of the world? Wasn't it your boy Jesus who supposedly said that it didn't have to be easy to be right?<br><br>And as to your last point: This is America. The President works for us. Those are all the credentials we need to analyze his performance in the office we gave him. Just a piece of paper? Just the Geneva Convention? How about our ideals as a nation, Eric? How about the fact that we're supposed to be the white hats of the world? Wasn't it your boy Jesus who supposedly said that it didn't have to be easy to be right?

And as to your last point: This is America. The President works for us. Those are all the credentials we need to analyze his performance in the office we gave him.

]]> By: erichttp://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/comment-page-1/#comment-21552 eric Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:57:15 +0000 http://popdose.com/pop-politico-master-and-servant/#comment-21552 Do you honestly believe that if you were in the Chief Executive's office, you would be willing to eschew extreme coercive measures -- torture by many definitions -- if you thought it could prevent more incidents like the bombings in London and Spain or the two World Trade Center attacks? Really? You're that committed to a piece of paper (Geneva Convention) that this would override your fear, not only for the citizens of the country, but also of the blame that would inevitably fall on you if such a tragedy were to recur on our soil? If so, you're a very strong man, but I think you have no conception of the pressures that a President, any President, is under. <br><br>Frankly, I think you're in no position to psychoanalyse the President, nor am I. What, pray tell, are your credentials, anyway? Do you honestly believe that if you were in the Chief Executive's office, you would be willing to eschew extreme coercive measures — torture by many definitions — if you thought it could prevent more incidents like the bombings in London and Spain or the two World Trade Center attacks? Really? You're that committed to a piece of paper (Geneva Convention) that this would override your fear, not only for the citizens of the country, but also of the blame that would inevitably fall on you if such a tragedy were to recur on our soil? If so, you're a very strong man, but I think you have no conception of the pressures that a President, any President, is under.

Frankly, I think you're in no position to psychoanalyse the President, nor am I. What, pray tell, are your credentials, anyway?

]]>