Back in July, I experienced a severe case of premature adulation by publishing a glowing review of the self-titled third album by synth pop trailblazers, Propaganda, a full four months before its street date. Part of this was to protect my own health, because I would have just burst had I had to contain my excitement for that long. In that review, you’ll see how I pulled my entire Propaganda CD collection off the shelf to fully explore how the new album fits into the extended universe. Now that Propaganda is on store shelves, I had some burning questions about the project for which co-founder Ralf Dörper, also of Die Krupps, was kind enough to answer.
‘Vicious Circle’ appears to be the narrative thread that links the three proper Propaganda albums together. On 1234, Susanne Freytag’s guest vocal in the intro passes the baton from the A Secret Wish era to Betsi Miller, while the sonics of the song recall the 80’s post punk dancefloor before bridging to a smoother 90’s adult contemporary sound. And now, you revisit the track for this new album with a mix that’s in frame with the sound of the album and your work with Thunder Bae. Was that your intention with the track or did something about the original composition feel unfinished or worth revisiting?
Ralf Dörper: Well the story behind the inclusion of ” vicious circle ” is a bit more profane. Initially we intended to release a few 12″ eps on vinyl ahead of the album. Each EP was supposed to include a new song, a variation (Dub) thereof – and a reworked song from the past. Due to a legal agreement made during the aftermath of our separation from ZTT, we would not be allowed to release a rework of any A Secret Wish song. Anyway our intention was not to do a Roger Waters or Taylor Swift on our older material.
But yes, the idea was to provide a bridge from the 80s/90s to now. Unfortunately the Vinyl EP idea was not favored by the label so instead of a series of revisits we ended just with one: ‘Vicious Circle’.
How did the partnership with Thunder Bae come to be? Was she at all familiar with your work and legacy?
A lucky incident – or a chance meeting in fact. She was working on her own material in the studio we used for pre recordings. This studio was owned by a friend of ours and he recommended to use her in our blueprints (on which Michael did the guideline vocal initially).
Originally we wanted to work in a similar way as Massive Attack or Röyksopp, using guest vocalists.
But while testing those vocals in the new material we realized that every version gained immensely from her voice. So we asked her to be our sole featured vocalist. But that does not mean that we have become a trio. She is concentrating on her first album now – and it is not produced by Propaganda.
Is she playing a role in your album promotion and/or stage shows?
There are no plans for stage activity at the moment – and I fear there might be a lot of live work for me with Die Krupps in 2025.
When you debuted, the term “propaganda” referred to something that seemed kind of distant to most club kids in the 80’s — something ripped from the history books or social studies/civic lessons in school — a form of communication and coercion that happened in Germany during WWII and Russia during the cold war. But now, here in the digital age, propaganda is just about everywhere, in every country on Earth — dividing citizens into fiercely guarded tribes — memes on social media, partisan cable TV channels and websites, fake news, and more. It seemed in the age of Brexit, Ukraine, and Trump/MAGA (let alone political turmoil throughout Europe and South America), the time was right for a bold revisiting of the audacious Propaganda pop art collective — the bombastic musical sonics, outrageous album sleeve artwork, unpredictable media appearances, etc., from the ZZT era — and yet, you take a more laid back approach here in the Bureau B era. Did you two come into this project with a more cerebral tone/vibe in mind or is that where the sessions took you?
I started Propaganda back in 1982, and the foundation took place in the context of post-punk so the political connotations were rather clear. However after being signed to ZTT we could use the name of the project on a new platform: the Pop Charts. It was quite an eye-catching and extraordinary experience to hear or see the word PROPAGANDA within a chart rundown among all those sexy or showbizzy band names … Later we realized that it was also a true international name understood by people on all continents. Especially the Latin world loved it – and us.
When I first heard ‘They Call Me Nocebo’, I thought you invented some science fiction character — then I saw a news story about the “nocebo effect” in medicine (if you feel you might get sick, you become sick — the opposite of the placebo effect) and realized, the concept likely also applies to the world’s social-political situation at large — and also, on the complexity of managing 1:1 human relationships. Much like ‘Mabuse’, it also offers some vivid imagery for the mind’s eye when listening to it. Have I landed on your inspiration for the song, or is it something else completely?
It could be a poisoned love song, a toxic adventure–a femme fatale who murders your love. Or imagine Scarlet Johanson in “Under The Skin”…
Promo copies of your album first went out in the summer, and your album officially hits shelves in October, a month before the Cure’s new album. Both sleeves feature asteroids as the principal visual theme — so you definitely were first here. Was there an inspiration that asteroids would be one of your visual themes? Is the end near?
Quite a coincidence, you know this album was long in the making. And some ideas might have been floating around. For example I wrote the words or blueprint to ‘Tipping Point’ ten or twelve years ago. And it was a bit annoying to see and hear Tears for Fears using the same title… but back to the artwork…
All three Propaganda album sleeves display a more or less mysterious object. We always preferred to provide some food for the imagination – instead of doing a poppy band shoot.
The story behind the album’s object goes back a few years. I was photographed by Thomas Stelzmann for a book on the Düsseldorf music scene in 2017. Thomas showed me his artistic work besides the portraits – and I was flabbergasted, having seen more than one potential sleeve artwork in his portfolio. What he photographed and worked on supported by computer technology were mikro-shards of meteorites. So small a microscope was involved.
At that time I thought of the mysterious object from 2001 (a Space Odyssey) – and of a possible Propaganda cover. But we did not ask Thomas about it before we were in the finishing stages of the album, i.e. around 2022/23.
Speaking of — is this the end of Propaganda — the brand and the band? Most epic stories are told in trilogy form. Or are you already dreaming and scheming your next chapter?
Dr. Mabuse the movie by Fritz Lang had three parts…spread over decades. And the dot on the sleeve (in yellow, orange, blue) is a “Punkt” (point) in German – which alludes to “Höhepunkt” (climax) but also “Schlusspunkt” (final point)…
But no, we do not have a 5 year-Master Plan and will not announce a Final Propaganda Tour next week.
Propaganda is finally in stores and on all of your favorite streamers. Follow the band on Instagram. Want to learn much, much more? Check out Ralf and Michael’s new interview on the Electronic Cafe.
Comments